“There is a problem with legitimacy - being seen as a real scientist.”
Written by Ariel Barreiro
Dr. Anna Quider is a renowned science and policy advocate with a PhD in astrophysics from Cambridge. With so many interests and talents, Quider founded The Quider Group in 2023 to combine them all.
She sat with the Chance to Change Lives (CCL-US) Director of Communications, Ariel Barreiro, to discuss her passion for advocacy, the emotional strain of being a successful woman in STEM and a mother, and how to help the next generation of STEM scholars see equity and inclusion.
This interview transcript has been edited for length and clarity.
Ariel Barreiro: I like to start from the beginning - did you always know you were going to be a scientist, or was there a sort of “aha” moment for you?
Anna Quider: I always knew that I was really curious. In eighth grade, I was placed in an honors Earth Science class, where we began to learn that the Universe is expanding - and I had questions! “Mrs. Shaber - is space stretching? Is it being added on to the edge of the Universe? What is it expanding into?” And she didn’t have the answers for me, and that got me started in astronomy. Then freshman year of highschool I got involved with a problem solving group called “Odyssey of the Mind,” and one of the physics teachers was the faculty mentor for this project. After asking a lot of questions he eventually said to me, “You know this is called physics, right?”
AB: So highschool was when it really began to come together for you, as far as concentration is concerned. Did you go to college directly out of highschool?
AQ: I did. The next fall after high school graduation I went to the University of Pittsburgh (Pitt). I knew going in I wanted to be a physics major, but I did not realize that there were so many other things I could do! There were tons of women in engineering programs and scholarships, but almost nothing for women in physical sciences.
AB: So how did you finance your college experience?
AQ: I actually won the tuition and full room-and-board scholarship at Pitt called The Chancellor’s Scholarship. Back then, my SAT scores, GPA, and class rank were enough to win me full tuition. Through essays and interviews I was able to win the room-and-board as well. It was pretty lucky actually – the late Dean of the Honors College, Doc Stewart was a physicist, which I didn’t know. He asked me, “If there was one book you could read, what would you read?” I answered, “I would really like to read the Feynman lectures on physics, but they’re too expensive.” He left the interview and went across the street and bought them for me. I still get choked up thinking about that.
AB: I’m getting choked up! That’s incredible, Pitt really is such a great school. You also double-majored in religious studies. Why combine religious studies with physics?
AQ: Well, with the Chancellor’s Scholarship, if you do a B.A./B.S. combo, you get a free fifth year of schooling. Of course, I was going to do that, who doesn’t want more learning? I mean, I was raised Roman Catholic, but it wasn’t a lifestyle for me. I took a great class in college on Christianity, and it became clear to me that religion is a really important belief structure in humankind. Science and religion are different systems for structuring and adding meaning to life.
AB: I actually really agree with that sentiment, I wrote a similar article while I was in school.
AQ: I think there’s a core set of what makes us human, so studying the history and philosophy of science as well as religion, helped me in understanding that a bit more, and not dismissing people as Other. This has really served me well in my career in policy.
AB: You went all the way to a PhD and then decided not to go into astrophysics research, can you walk me through your process there?
AQ: In grad school I learned a couple of things about myself. One, I’m not personally motivated by discovery. That sounds weird for a scientist but my feeling after a novel result was basically “Thank God that’s done!” I like learning about science, I like talking about it, but I don’t need to be the one who discovers it.
AB: This resonates with me more than you could imagine.
AQ: You get it. I started doing these talks at Cambridge, and you can only be told so many times, “Hey, you’re really good at this!” before you pause and consider a different path. Cambridge opened The Center for Science and Policy while I was there as well, so I started going to the open forums. There was a member of parliament there who said “Will somebody who understands science please come talk to us politicians in a non-judgemental way that we can understand?” and I thought, “I can do that.” From there, I found a fellowship through the American Physical Society (APS) where they bring scientists to come work in D.C. to help influence policy decisions. In July 2011 I finished grad school, moved back to the U.S. in August 2011, and by September I was working in the APS fellowship. Any job I’ve ever had, I didn’t have any formal training for.
AB: So the timeline from freshman year to first job out of grad school was about 9 years - that’s pretty quick! Then how long until you got to where you are now, running the Quider Group?
AQ: After working on Capitol Hill for a while, I networked to find something with a mix of academia and government domestically, and a colleague connected me with Northern Illinois University, and I got hired to open and run their D.C. office. I did that for eight and a half years, and then began the Quider Group.
AB: Through all this schooling, were there any challenges you faced academically?
AQ: Not really academically, but more the idea that I had to pick something to be. Pick a lane, stay in your lane. This idea was an existential crisis for me - what about all the other things that I am? Trying to figure out my identity, that was tough. But now that I’m on the other side, having built the life and career that I have, I realize it’s a “yes and..” You are who you are. You can live in one part of your life for a time, and switch to another. The job I’m doing now, I feel I get to live in more parts of myself more of the time. It was true to feel that squeeze while going through school - but it’s untrue that it’s a permanent state of being. You don’t have to pick something and then only be that thing forever.
AB: This is so true. In college, sure, you have to pick a concentration or two. But when you come out in the world, it opens back up. It’s really helpful to hear that.
AQ: I think it kind of starts in middle school, that rhetoric. “What do you want to be when you grow up?” We seek external validation, but we’re just given back “You’ll be good at whatever you choose to do.” What would have been more helpful would be questions like, “What are you interested in? What motivates you? What are you curious about? Why do you like those things?” In the end, after being asked what I wanted to be so many times, I settled on “I want to be a really interesting old person.”
AB: I love that. This is an important lesson for our readers - better mentorship starting at a young age. Speaking of, did you have mentors to help you through your undergrad process? How important do you think mentors are as a woman in STEM?
AQ: Oh yeah, I had two great undergrad mentors at Pitt, Dave Turnshek and Sandya Rao. They were really supportive and encouraging – I was in undergrad helping to write public space telescope observing program proposals. They paid for multiple observing trips to Arizona for me, they taught me how to be a part of a functioning collaboration – they were tremendous.
AQ: As for how important it is to have mentors – incredibly. There was a national scholarship advisor who didn’t believe in me. She told me I didn’t look like national scholar material. She told me to my face that I’m too fat, and that I should invest in better undergarments that would hold my belly fat in.
AB: I am…I am shocked by this. I’m sorry you experienced this.
AQ: I’m sorry that I don’t think we’ve really moved past this as a society. We have Lizzo, one representative artist and that’s it. And, representation matters. Having mentors matters. There’s a great article from The National Academy of Science Engineering and Medicine called “The Science of Effective Mentorship.” They talk about the difference between mentorship and sponsorship. Mentorship walks you through how to do things, sponsorship is when your mentor is willing to put their reputation on the line for you – they’re willing to advocate for you, they take action for you. The difference between helping you pick a grad school, and being a champion for you for a national scholarship, which Doc Stewart did for me after that advisor wouldn’t help me. Sponsorship is really important for underrepresented groups in STEM. I think about that a lot in my own work - I try to sponsor people, not just mentor them.
AB: There is a difference there, I absolutely agree, and I don’t think that difference is well known. Switching gears a little - what’s one piece of advice you wish someone had given you while going through school?
AQ: Don’t hate the player, hate the game. I’m a big fan of 90s rap. When I got my PhD, I bought a shirt that said “PhD - Player Hater Degree,” and I wore it around Cambridge, England. But ok, really, I’m trying to say - you are functioning within a system. You do have to focus on your grades. Opportunities are based on GPAs, standardized testing determines placement. However, don’t tie your identity to this system. Take a step back; you’re not your grades, but those grades have to be on point. You’re in this game - be successful in it. Now I’m working to change the rules of the game, a bit, but you can’t do that while you’re in the game! You gotta get through the game to change the game.
AB: Yes, absolutely. Great advice. Changing the game - we’re talking about The Quider Group? You just started this a year ago. How’s that been? What led to this? Then your work-life balance - how are you running this group, able to be an APS mentor, still finding time to lobby, and be a mom?
AQ: I started the group for a few reasons. One, I saw a real need for providing government relations, R&D, grantsmanship, and strategic planning support, to a wider array of institutions. I decided that right now in my life, I’d like to spend some time supporting entities that are trying to increase access and opportunity in science and tech, especially for underrepresented groups. My work-life balance now is great; my work isn’t really in time constraints, I’m just support for these institutions, so I can say “I won’t be available these days,” and that’s all good.
AB: It sounds like you have a lot of freedom now. Can you speak a little about being a mom in the STEM workforce?
AQ: I’m in a different space than many other women, honestly. We have kind of reversed gender roles [in my family], my husband is the primary parent. My daughter still sees these more traditional gender roles. There was a stretch when I was traveling for about 12 days, we were video chatting, and she just very matter-of-factly asked me, “Why did you get married and have a kid if you’re not going to be home? It seems selfish to me.” And I responded “It sounds like you’re having some feelings about mom traveling - let’s talk about your feelings (and not my life choices.)” That’s more challenging. I brought her into my business, she has a title, an employment contract, and responsibilities. There are ways that I’m trying to show her it’s pretty extraordinary, what mom does. It’s tough on the emotional side.
AB: I really appreciate your honesty, Anna. I know it’s not easy to put this kind of vulnerability out into the world. A lot of times when we speak on the challenges women face it centers around how we’re treated in the workplace, and I’ve been wanting this perspective of what it’s like from the family side, the difficulties we face there. I really appreciate you being real.
AQ: I haven’t felt that I couldn’t advance or be taken seriously because I’m a mother. However, while being a mom is an important part of my identity, it isn’t the central component of my identity.
AB: You speak my life to me, Anna! I agree. We are allowed to be more than a mom. Outside of motherhood, what do you think are our biggest challenges as women or underrepresented groups in STEM?
AQ: There is a problem with legitimacy. Being seen as a real scientist or physicist, somebody who’s deserving of being where they are. Feeling like a diversity choice, for optics.
AB: What do you think is the strength of being a woman in these spaces?
AQ: When you’re at a point in your career that you can embody your other identities simultaneously and bring those to bear on your work. As an example, there was a woman speaker at a conference discussing number theory. She was using historical quotes from men in physics, and she kind of poked a little fun at these gendered ways that science is talked about, very subtly. She didn’t halt on it, or make a big deal, but just reframed it in a modern context. I really loved that.
AB: Thank you so much for your time, Anna. It was great to speak with you and get these very real perspectives on what it’s like being a student, a mom, a woman in science, all of the things that you are and have been. It sounds like you believe the best way to help these underrepresented groups is to get involved and sponsor these individuals. I hope our readers take that and run with it!
It's a long, arduous road to begin to achieve as a woman in science. With the right help and proper motivation — whatever that may be for you — you can get there. At the Chance to Change Lives Foundation (CCL-US), our mission is to support high impact experiential learning experiences for undergraduate students, especially from under-represented groups, to prepare them for twenty-first century research and develop careers in STEM disciplines.
The Chance to Change Lives Foundation (CCL-US (CCL-US) is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization established to address some of the challenges facing students from underserved communities. We use a ‘pay-it-forward’ model to mentor and develop the next generation of leaders and knowledge creators in Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics (STEM) fields. CCL-US launched the STEMNetX initiative in 2021 to begin to bridge the gaps in access to resources, awareness, capacity, and social capital through the STEMNetX Fellowship Program. The year-long STEMNetX Fellowship is centered around early-stage college students from Predominantly Undergraduate Institutions (PUIs) and Emerging Research Institutions (ERIs) in the western PA area interested in emerging STEM fields, with the goal of creating access to peers and mentors to support career exploration in STEM fields. There are multiple ways to support the Fellowship program, and we are always searching for new partnerships!
